more on that thing
| Stella, I think very much of you, but can you imagine, spending nine months in discomfort and shame, so as to let an innocent child live? I imagine that although you passionately claim the rights of others, that you would do this. |
No, lovie, I would abort. No qualms, no problem.
I passionately claim my right to myself.
I passionately claim your right to yourself. Your body, your choice.
If you feel this fetus has the potential for a life that makes your nine months of humiliation worth your while, I willingly support you in that.
I had an abortion in my early 20s. I have two children both of whom were deliberate and wanted, and I’ve spent today celebrating my daughter’s 21st birthday. I do not regret the earlier decision, not for one moment. If I had been forced to bear that child I would never have been in a position to cherish my daughter and son, and witness them become intelligent, talented, motivated, loving adults– and what a wonderful pleasure it’s been, and continues to be!
That first time? That was never a child to me. Inside my body was a blastocyte that needed to be removed. And I have never, ever spent one moment imagining that as a living person. I am a living person. You are a living person. You can chose to host a fetus until it becomes a living person as I did twice– or not, as I did once.
_______
I have alienated someone i hold dear in the course of this conversation, because I insist that women have every right to be selfish with their bodies. That right is so important to me that I cannot always remember the tricks of genteel conversation.
Tough noogies.
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Thank you for that.
Been there done that. I was in my late 20s. And It was something that had to be done. And I did it with my mom phoning me every other hour crying about why I shouldn’t. But, I couldn’t then. AND it wasn’t a person. Not moving, not living, not a personality at that point. The choice is different for every person. But I, and to a lesser extent SG, will NEVER regret that choice. We couldn’t have brought that child into this world…for many reasons.
Without that right, we really don’t have other rights. It’s about who owns a woman’s body, and any civilization where the answer isn’t “She does,” isn’t one I want to be in.
Not entirely off topic
Happy B’day, C!
Re: Not entirely off topic
I’ll pass your good wishes along to her
It’s a decision that is not just selfish concern for one’s own survival in a culture that lets women and children sleep in the rain, on the streets.
I knew damn well at several points I was at risk that I could not care for a child, I could not afford to live pregnant and unable to work for so long as two weeks, and I didn’t have any health coverage to help me out.
Until they get the health mess sorted out like civilized countries have managed to do for over forty years now, thousands more women will be looking this choice in its long ugly teeth.
And deciding against carrying to term, because it jeopardizes both their own health and that of the blastocyst they’re carrying. Much of this is poverty. They know they’re not healthy now, and they know they won’t get any effective prenatal care in many states, where the rightwing crew has managed to *shut down* the only effective and low-cost health clinics who take in pregnant women, often the only one in their area.
These folks have been doing things like firebombing Planned Parenthood and others, under the banner of saving lives.
The gentleman’s argument is further undermined by the bloodthirsty spectacle of the very self-same people insisting on the death penalty for condemned death row inmates, and inciting their followers to murder doctors performing surgery to save women in troubled pregnancies, whether that includes aborting the fetus or not.
Excellently put!
Allow me to spam you with evidence of how serious it really gets:
A pregnancy is grounds for courtmartial (and in married couples, it applies to both male and female of the couple) when they serve under this general in Northern Iraq.
They normally send pregnant soldiers home, but he was losing too many of them.
link to news.bbc.co.uk
See… this is what I mean. You have the right to make that choice for yourself. Your friend has the right to make her choice for herself. Why does one group insist they have the right to make that decision for the other group? I don’t think I could have an abortion, but that is me. I sure as HELL could NEVER tell someone else what to do with their conscience.
As late as the 13th century, the Catholic church said that abortion was fine as long as the fetus wasn’t “animated.” So men could send their mistresses off to have abortions with a clear conscience, and many in the church did exactly that. In the late 1500′s or early 1600′s the church said that first trimester abortions were fine. But then, let the women start taking control of their decisions, and suddenly abortion is murder… it’s selfish… it’s evil.
Some Jewish communities not only allow abortion but require it if the life of the mother is at risk. But who makes the decisions? In the conservative groups, the rabbi does. Okay, that’s creepy. So, one religion that ethically allows it takes the choice away from the woman whose body it is. I’m seeing a pattern here, and the pattern is not morality.
It’s really sad, but any time someone starts throwing around the word ‘morals,’ I start cringing.
Amen sistah. My body, my choices and anyone who sets themselves up as the Arbiter of what happens therein had better get ready for a massive, no-holds-barred-and-I-fight-dirty battle.
Of course, what will be REALLY interesting in this Army business is how they are going to try any case of pregnancy in a court martial without coming smack up against the issue of forced birth control. I doubt very seriously that the US Army wants to get on the wrong side of the slavering righties on that one, so the point is pretty moot. If they ever bring such a case to trial, the bad PR will be SO egregious (yay! i CAN spell it!) that it won’t be worth the effort—they’ll end up with pro-lifers picketing recruiting stations, hardcore teabagging parents tossing Marines out of HS auditoriums….you name it. This is NOT a road they’re gonna go down, despite one loudmouth general—wanna make a bet his superiors quietly shut him up and make the whole issue go away?
OH YEAH.
Well we all know women aren’t capable of being good soldiers any way. They do stupid thing like have sex which makes babies. it’s all their fault…
*snerk* Either they’ll try that (I don’t necessarily think it’s gonna fly easily unless they practically fabricate a ‘test case’) or they’ll end up with a rape case and then ALL HELL is gonna break loose. Whichever way it goes, it will backfire badly. Despite my jaundiced view of ‘military intelligence’ (sic), any decent lawyer is going to tell them to avoid this like the freakin’ PLAGUE or risk more bad press than its worth. The very fact that the issue made CNN is going to have repercussions as it is—we’re talking about it and I would say we’re aren’t the only ones.
Mind, I don’t think much of women in combat myself—I think it sets a very dangerous precedent that can have grave consequences for the civilian population, but I sure wouldn’t think to impose that opinion on the general populace. *G* (I’m not terribly military by nature, am I? *giggle*)
Excellently put!
OH YEAH.
Well we all know women aren’t capable of being good soldiers any way. They do stupid thing like have sex which makes babies. it’s all their fault…
*snerk* Either they’ll try that (I don’t necessarily think it’s gonna fly easily unless they practically fabricate a ‘test case’) or they’ll end up with a rape case and then ALL HELL is gonna break loose. Whichever way it goes, it will backfire badly. Despite my jaundiced view of ‘military intelligence’ (sic), any decent lawyer is going to tell them to avoid this like the freakin’ PLAGUE or risk more bad press than its worth. The very fact that the issue made CNN is going to have repercussions as it is—we’re talking about it and I would say we’re aren’t the only ones.
Mind, I don’t think much of women in combat myself—I think it sets a very dangerous precedent that can have grave consequences for the civilian population, but I sure wouldn’t think to impose that opinion on the general populace. *G* (I’m not terribly military by nature, am I? *giggle*)
OH YEAH.
Well we all know women aren’t capable of being good soldiers any way. They do stupid thing like have sex which makes babies. it’s all their fault…
*snerk* Either they’ll try that (I don’t necessarily think it’s gonna fly easily unless they practically fabricate a ‘test case’) or they’ll end up with a rape case and then ALL HELL is gonna break loose. Whichever way it goes, it will backfire badly. Despite my jaundiced view of ‘military intelligence’ (sic), any decent lawyer is going to tell them to avoid this like the freakin’ PLAGUE or risk more bad press than its worth. The very fact that the issue made CNN is going to have repercussions as it is—we’re talking about it and I would say we’re aren’t the only ones.
Mind, I don’t think much of women in combat myself—I think it sets a very dangerous precedent that can have grave consequences for the civilian population, but I sure wouldn’t think to impose that opinion on the general populace. *G* (I’m not terribly military by nature, am I? *giggle*)