about personal archives.

Posted by Stella Omega on Oct 13, 2007 in Blogging |

This is frustrating.

I had a lot of fun last weekend, playing around constructing a frames-based fiction archive. And I got my britches tanned for it– which was nice, of course, don’t get me wrong XD

I got linked to this rather good essay on writer’s sites and I thought it made bookoo sense.
But at the same time– I likes teh pretties!

Then, on another forum, a guy said “I wish I knew how to do it– I use a blog, but it doesn’t really work. When I post chapters, you have to read them bottom to top.” which sounds so fucking familiar to me!

So, this guy can post to a blog. Do you know how many blogging scripts there are out there for free? MILLIONS!

But what I want, and I suspect more than only me wants, is– a script that doesn’t ID entries by date. I want a site that makes pages, and allows me to place my new page into the navigation wherever I want it. For instance, chapters of a book.

I’ve looked at about half-a-dozen CMS’s in the past few days. Joomla, mambo, all them guys. The backend is a bear to set up, and the architecture is enormous if you want to use only one function. I’ve looked at wordpress– you can publish “pages” but I can’t figure out how to make my pages navigation do what I want it to do. And I want to be able to offer this same, simple set of functions to less websavvy writers, and have it work more or less out of the box. And the templates and css need to be easy to modify, because although we mostly need the same functions, we need teh pretties! (Some of you know how I am with over-imaging websites!)

(edited to add, because I forgot the point entirely;

THEREFORE, I plan to create that which has been missing. A library, like a blog. I am looking at php, or perl/cgi. each has it’s plusses and minuses.

Who has found a solution, and what have you found, and how happy (or not) are you with it?

What is missing in what you are using, and what works well about it?

And Pimp this post, please!

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52 Comments

  • The ONLY solution I’ve found (via Shayde) is a library in a Yahoo Group. It’s been working pretty well for a few years — talk to da Man about it.

    • Stella Omega says:

      Yahoo means that I am dependent on Yahoo. After the latest in corporate disco-dances (6apart changing its mind suddenly on what’s okay and what isn’t) I feel that I need to have control of my own website…

      • Well, to build it yourself, you could try what i used to do (dependence on Yahoo doesn’t bother me, as they have not screwed me, or even made nasty faces). I used to keep a very simple archive for chaptered works with a list of links to the separate files labeled on a page, and ‘next/last’ buttons on the web pages themselves. Tis not so very pretty or fancy, but it worked, one could read it from top to bottom, first to last.
        I closed it down because it was too easy to lose control of the material and, vain as it might seen, I worried about losing my copyright. I have some worry about that with the Yahoo stuff, although we’ve done what we can to secure it. Digital watermarks are something I know about but do not understand how to apply.

  • Being a complete moron about computer stuff, I’m having a little trouble making sense of this.
    You want to create a site that will allow you to control the order of things, so that the later chapters are later rather than the first to jump out, yes? But you’re hoping for someone who has already done this, or knows of a place where it is done, to point you to a short cut for it?
    And you are going to create a library to put your fic in. Just yours, or a general database that others can add to?
    Have you looked up any of the sites that post public domain fiction works? Their chapters are all in order, and I imagine that might mean they have a script for it instead of having to scan/input chapters in reverse order.
    More questions than answers, I’m afraid, but I can definitely see why you want a proper set up!

    • Stella Omega says:

      answers in order :)
      first, yes, exactly
      second, I know that nobody has done thins yet, or I would have found it– in a week of searching!
      I want a solo library. And I want the script to be easy to set up for other people as well. I want the use to be as simple as posting in a blog.
      I’ve looked at the fan-fiction sites. They do offer a way to post in order and posting to them is very simple. But are uuugly– and the navigation systems in every one of them does not satisfy my sense of aesthetics either!

  • geekmama says:

    I got linked to this rather good essay on writer’s sites and I thought it made bookoo sense.
    But at the same time– I likes teh pretties!

    I likes teh pretties too. ;)

  • The ONLY solution I’ve found (via Shayde) is a library in a Yahoo Group. It’s been working pretty well for a few years — talk to da Man about it.

    • dharma_slut says:

      Yahoo means that I am dependent on Yahoo. After the latest in corporate disco-dances (6apart changing its mind suddenly on what’s okay and what isn’t) I feel that I need to have control of my own website…

      • Well, to build it yourself, you could try what i used to do (dependence on Yahoo doesn’t bother me, as they have not screwed me, or even made nasty faces). I used to keep a very simple archive for chaptered works with a list of links to the separate files labeled on a page, and ‘next/last’ buttons on the web pages themselves. Tis not so very pretty or fancy, but it worked, one could read it from top to bottom, first to last.
        I closed it down because it was too easy to lose control of the material and, vain as it might seen, I worried about losing my copyright. I have some worry about that with the Yahoo stuff, although we’ve done what we can to secure it. Digital watermarks are something I know about but do not understand how to apply.

  • Being a complete moron about computer stuff, I’m having a little trouble making sense of this.
    You want to create a site that will allow you to control the order of things, so that the later chapters are later rather than the first to jump out, yes? But you’re hoping for someone who has already done this, or knows of a place where it is done, to point you to a short cut for it?
    And you are going to create a library to put your fic in. Just yours, or a general database that others can add to?
    Have you looked up any of the sites that post public domain fiction works? Their chapters are all in order, and I imagine that might mean they have a script for it instead of having to scan/input chapters in reverse order.
    More questions than answers, I’m afraid, but I can definitely see why you want a proper set up!

    • dharma_slut says:

      answers in order :)
      first, yes, exactly
      second, I know that nobody has done thins yet, or I would have found it– in a week of searching!
      I want a solo library. And I want the script to be easy to set up for other people as well. I want the use to be as simple as posting in a blog.
      I’ve looked at the fan-fiction sites. They do offer a way to post in order and posting to them is very simple. But are uuugly– and the navigation systems in every one of them does not satisfy my sense of aesthetics either!

  • geekmama says:

    I got linked to this rather good essay on writer’s sites and I thought it made bookoo sense.
    But at the same time– I likes teh pretties!

    I likes teh pretties too. ;)

  • isiscolo says:

    eFiction and Automated Archive, which are in use by many fandom archive sites, are also very adaptable for single-author sites. And they are free! Here’s an example: Lapsus Calumni (‘s site).

  • quivo says:

    here from del.icio.us/metafandom
    My good god, this is so me a couple months ago XD
    I’ve been at this stage for a while, trying to set up a personal fic archive despite my lack of knowledge of CSS and so on. Right now, I’m about to put up the foundation pages for it– the front page, updates page and contact page– and I’m sort of halfway to a decision on how to sort out next/back links and that sort of thing. I too made a merry round of blog software and mambo and drupal and so on– none of them did what I wanted them to do without unnecessary tweaking and adjustment, so I decided to build my own.
    What I ended up using, believe it or not, is Server Side Includes. For real. Requirements for hosting? Apache 1.2 and above (for some of the more advanced stuff) and…that’s it. Well, apart from the ability to understand the Apache docs for the functionality and clobber together something that works, but if you’ve worked with HTML at all and know your way round the copy-paste-delete school of scripting, you’ll be fine. And I *am* fine. All I’ve put in apart from raw HTML and CSS is about six or seven lines of code so that my sidebar, header and footer are dynamically loaded, and later on I’m going to be including chapterlinks at the top and bottom of each chapter page using SSI. In the future, I may replace that with python scripts, and even make the whole thing updateable online, but I think the current model I have will last for a bit.
    Automated Archive and eFiction have already been mentioned, but I just want to add an extra vote for Archive– it’s a very good starting point for learning purposes, even if you decide not to use it. And lastly, about how it looks? Well, you fix that. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in my hunt for a solution (well, apart from that I’d be better off building my own), it’s that every little detail of how a site looks can be changed, if you know CSS. Learning CSS has made designing my website a lot more of a breeze- I definitely recommend taking a refresher if you already know some.

    • quivo says:

      Re: here from del.icio.us/metafandom
      Oh and I’ll also include a plug for nearlyfreespeech.net, who I host with. They’re very good about not handing your info over to random people and taking down your site unless presented with the requisite legal docs, and they only make you pay for what bandwidth and storage you use, so are really cheap for smaller sites. I’m not affiliated with them in any way or whatever- just a satisfied customer so far.

    • Stella Omega says:

      Re: here from del.icio.us/metafandom
      WOW!
      okay, so– you’ve set up a personal template system? Are these flat files which you then ftp onto your site?
      I am just getting a handle on css. Farting around with several livejournal sites and comms has been quite the laboratory!
      If you don’t answering more questions– What about archive and efiction did you not care for? What did you like?

      • quivo says:

        reply 1: cannot believe this actually exceeds the limit
        okay, so– you’ve set up a personal template system?
        Yeah, in a nutshell. And flat files only, which I just ftp into my site in the exact directory structure I want them in. Getting a handle on CSS meant I wasn’t worried about how the site would look any more since I *could* fix that– all I had to do then was think and see if I wanted to work with someone else’s templating system, or just my own.
        As for what I didn’t like about efiction– well. When I set it up for the first time, it was *hell*, mostly because I didn’t know much about php and so on and so forth. I still got it working, but I was so tired of working with it by then and not keen on working with the templating system that I just stopped fiddling with it. I haven’t tried it recently (i.e. in the last year or so!), so it might be an easier setup now that I’ve had more experience with basic php, but anyway. I *love* maeglinyedi’s customised version of efiction, but can’t be bothered to put in the effort to get there when I’d still be working with links that end in php?q=501. That would likely be the most annoying thing for me now about working with efiction– I’m definitely a ‘clean urls’ nazi for fic archives now. Or at least for the one I’m making ;)
        As for good stuff about efiction, I vaguely remembering the admin panel as easy to work with. And there’s a great community around it– not on WordPress’ community’s scale, but close enough that you can get help if something’s not working right. There’s lots of little tips and so on floating around in the forums at the site, if I remember right, and bug fixes come out pretty regularly. Don’t take my word for it, though! Dive in and try it out for yourself, and you’ll know if it will be what you need.
        As for archive, what I ran up against was mostly the fact that it is set up very specifically to archive non-chaptered fics. I’ve never seen anyone try to make it a chaptered-fic archive, and since two or three massive chaptered fics of mine will make up the body of my fanfic archive, that was a definite speedbump. Despite that, there is a feature where you can add different attributes to each fic by working with a provided script to produce the code for it, but I just couldn’t quite get my head around it. And at the end of it, I was starting to think of doing the same thing I’d done with WordPress et al– try to rebuild the parts I didn’t like. Since I know only basic basic perl (which is what Archive is written in), I thought I’d be better off shelving my work with that and just going it alone for starters. Later on, I do plan to see how I can add a similar type of comment system to my archive with python, since that’s proven easy for me to get along with, but for starters, I’m just going the static way.

      • quivo says:

        reply 2: cannot believe this actually exceeds the limit
        As for what I liked about archive…automatically clean urls! Since it’s a flat file archive, you automatically get a nice clean url that’s easy to bookmark and remember. And I love the size, and the relatively low complexity of the scripts. Customisation was a bit of a rocky ride at first– if you don’t know what permissions are now, or do not think you could stand having to hunt down random bugs in some of the scripts (they creep in somehow, and since the perl interpreter is a bitch about commas and brackets, it will snarl at you and refuse to play if something is wrong), either learn, or let it go, because knowing really really helps to lower the frustration you’ll feel if things aren’t working right on your first try. Oh, and you’re on your own support-wise, sadly. The creator of the Archive can’t respond to support requests, and though the Yahoo group may be occasionally helpful, you’ll likely end up banging away at problems on your own. That’s definitely where efiction beats archive– there’s zero community around archive, as far as I can tell. The comments in the scripts are great, but no substitute for someone telling you where you’re going wrong, especially if you don’t understand the lang they’re written in.
        But back to archive advantages! This next one is definitely subjective, so it mayn’t apply to you, but it felt really good to be able to change one line or comment something out, re-upload or refresh and see a change immediately. One thing I really don’t like as much anymore about WordPress is how you do customisation online. It’s nice at first, but editing a preferences file is tons faster, especially if you have a pretty good ‘find’ function in the text editor you’re using. And what you change isn’t abstracted away in a database, it is literally that text you just commented out or replaced. I don’t know why I love that, but I do. It made me feel really silly for a while, going back to working with Archive every so often even while I was still struggling with WordPress, but that’s how it was.
        Of course, I’d likely do you a disservice by letting you assume I’m writing all the html for the actual fics myself– only the general body and design is what I’ve written. Everything else will be produced by converting my existing fics to Markdown and writing in Markdown in the future, and converting fics when I’m done writing them and just pasting the code in. That sounds complex, but you could easily replace that with the more conservative of Word’s export-to-html features, or something similar.
        Hopefully this hasn’t been confusing XD. I’m really glad I can help out– it really sucked not knowing exactly what to do, and now that I’m on track in some manner, I like to see if I can help anyone else out.

        • Stella Omega says:

          you are my new fwend!
          haha! Thank you so much for the replies.
          So, right now I have samples of each on my site. The
          efiction pretty much works right out of the box, but will take tweaking to –remove– a lot of extras, aimed at community. There are scripts out there that will clean up the URLs, maybe I can fiddle around and get one working, because I sure as hell need chapter support!
          Archive I think, only supports uploaded stories, and only plain text. I’m used to copy-and pasting into a window… I guess that doesn’t matter much!
          I would prefer a cgi-type application, that writes flat files and over-writes then as necessary. I’ve used a shopping cart that did that– y the hell not an archive?
          I don’t know what Python is like. Is it learnable?

          • quivo says:

            Re: you are my new fwend!
            Archive I think, only supports uploaded stories, and only plain text
            Actually, it works fine with HTML if you paste it in…I think there’s an option where you can turn that off, but it definitely supports HTML uploads.
            Python is *definitely* learnable. Here’s the tutorial that got me started: Python tutorial. And here’s where to download the python files (unless you’re using Linux or or OSX, you don’t have it installed): python download page. The tutorial is a bit math-y, but if you just try out the examples in ways that make more sense to you, you should be fine. That’s usually how I learn something, by futzing around with it in ways that aren’t quite in the book :)
            Hope this helps…

          • Stella Omega says:

            Re: you are my new fwend!
            That’s very cool, and it does look learnable.
            And python can do CGI.
            Any, my server has Python, and I’m on a mac.
            Oh, goodies, one more distraction… I hate you so much right now… XD

          • quivo says:

            Re: you are my new fwend!
            *bows* Am glad to distract someone other than myself for once. Have fun coding away- once you get everything going, it really is fun :D

  • isiscolo says:

    eFiction and Automated Archive, which are in use by many fandom archive sites, are also very adaptable for single-author sites. And they are free! Here’s an example: Lapsus Calumni (‘s site).

  • quivo says:

    here from del.icio.us/metafandom
    My good god, this is so me a couple months ago XD
    I’ve been at this stage for a while, trying to set up a personal fic archive despite my lack of knowledge of CSS and so on. Right now, I’m about to put up the foundation pages for it– the front page, updates page and contact page– and I’m sort of halfway to a decision on how to sort out next/back links and that sort of thing. I too made a merry round of blog software and mambo and drupal and so on– none of them did what I wanted them to do without unnecessary tweaking and adjustment, so I decided to build my own.
    What I ended up using, believe it or not, is Server Side Includes. For real. Requirements for hosting? Apache 1.2 and above (for some of the more advanced stuff) and…that’s it. Well, apart from the ability to understand the Apache docs for the functionality and clobber together something that works, but if you’ve worked with HTML at all and know your way round the copy-paste-delete school of scripting, you’ll be fine. And I *am* fine. All I’ve put in apart from raw HTML and CSS is about six or seven lines of code so that my sidebar, header and footer are dynamically loaded, and later on I’m going to be including chapterlinks at the top and bottom of each chapter page using SSI. In the future, I may replace that with python scripts, and even make the whole thing updateable online, but I think the current model I have will last for a bit.
    Automated Archive and eFiction have already been mentioned, but I just want to add an extra vote for Archive– it’s a very good starting point for learning purposes, even if you decide not to use it. And lastly, about how it looks? Well, you fix that. If there’s one thing I’ve learned in my hunt for a solution (well, apart from that I’d be better off building my own), it’s that every little detail of how a site looks can be changed, if you know CSS. Learning CSS has made designing my website a lot more of a breeze- I definitely recommend taking a refresher if you already know some.

    • quivo says:

      Re: here from del.icio.us/metafandom
      Oh and I’ll also include a plug for nearlyfreespeech.net, who I host with. They’re very good about not handing your info over to random people and taking down your site unless presented with the requisite legal docs, and they only make you pay for what bandwidth and storage you use, so are really cheap for smaller sites. I’m not affiliated with them in any way or whatever- just a satisfied customer so far.

    • dharma_slut says:

      Re: here from del.icio.us/metafandom
      WOW!
      okay, so– you’ve set up a personal template system? Are these flat files which you then ftp onto your site?
      I am just getting a handle on css. Farting around with several livejournal sites and comms has been quite the laboratory!
      If you don’t answering more questions– What about archive and efiction did you not care for? What did you like?

      • quivo says:

        reply 1: cannot believe this actually exceeds the limit
        okay, so– you’ve set up a personal template system?
        Yeah, in a nutshell. And flat files only, which I just ftp into my site in the exact directory structure I want them in. Getting a handle on CSS meant I wasn’t worried about how the site would look any more since I *could* fix that– all I had to do then was think and see if I wanted to work with someone else’s templating system, or just my own.
        As for what I didn’t like about efiction– well. When I set it up for the first time, it was *hell*, mostly because I didn’t know much about php and so on and so forth. I still got it working, but I was so tired of working with it by then and not keen on working with the templating system that I just stopped fiddling with it. I haven’t tried it recently (i.e. in the last year or so!), so it might be an easier setup now that I’ve had more experience with basic php, but anyway. I *love* maeglinyedi’s customised version of efiction, but can’t be bothered to put in the effort to get there when I’d still be working with links that end in php?q=501. That would likely be the most annoying thing for me now about working with efiction– I’m definitely a ‘clean urls’ nazi for fic archives now. Or at least for the one I’m making ;)
        As for good stuff about efiction, I vaguely remembering the admin panel as easy to work with. And there’s a great community around it– not on WordPress’ community’s scale, but close enough that you can get help if something’s not working right. There’s lots of little tips and so on floating around in the forums at the site, if I remember right, and bug fixes come out pretty regularly. Don’t take my word for it, though! Dive in and try it out for yourself, and you’ll know if it will be what you need.
        As for archive, what I ran up against was mostly the fact that it is set up very specifically to archive non-chaptered fics. I’ve never seen anyone try to make it a chaptered-fic archive, and since two or three massive chaptered fics of mine will make up the body of my fanfic archive, that was a definite speedbump. Despite that, there is a feature where you can add different attributes to each fic by working with a provided script to produce the code for it, but I just couldn’t quite get my head around it. And at the end of it, I was starting to think of doing the same thing I’d done with WordPress et al– try to rebuild the parts I didn’t like. Since I know only basic basic perl (which is what Archive is written in), I thought I’d be better off shelving my work with that and just going it alone for starters. Later on, I do plan to see how I can add a similar type of comment system to my archive with python, since that’s proven easy for me to get along with, but for starters, I’m just going the static way.

      • quivo says:

        reply 2: cannot believe this actually exceeds the limit
        As for what I liked about archive…automatically clean urls! Since it’s a flat file archive, you automatically get a nice clean url that’s easy to bookmark and remember. And I love the size, and the relatively low complexity of the scripts. Customisation was a bit of a rocky ride at first– if you don’t know what permissions are now, or do not think you could stand having to hunt down random bugs in some of the scripts (they creep in somehow, and since the perl interpreter is a bitch about commas and brackets, it will snarl at you and refuse to play if something is wrong), either learn, or let it go, because knowing really really helps to lower the frustration you’ll feel if things aren’t working right on your first try. Oh, and you’re on your own support-wise, sadly. The creator of the Archive can’t respond to support requests, and though the Yahoo group may be occasionally helpful, you’ll likely end up banging away at problems on your own. That’s definitely where efiction beats archive– there’s zero community around archive, as far as I can tell. The comments in the scripts are great, but no substitute for someone telling you where you’re going wrong, especially if you don’t understand the lang they’re written in.
        But back to archive advantages! This next one is definitely subjective, so it mayn’t apply to you, but it felt really good to be able to change one line or comment something out, re-upload or refresh and see a change immediately. One thing I really don’t like as much anymore about WordPress is how you do customisation online. It’s nice at first, but editing a preferences file is tons faster, especially if you have a pretty good ‘find’ function in the text editor you’re using. And what you change isn’t abstracted away in a database, it is literally that text you just commented out or replaced. I don’t know why I love that, but I do. It made me feel really silly for a while, going back to working with Archive every so often even while I was still struggling with WordPress, but that’s how it was.
        Of course, I’d likely do you a disservice by letting you assume I’m writing all the html for the actual fics myself– only the general body and design is what I’ve written. Everything else will be produced by converting my existing fics to Markdown and writing in Markdown in the future, and converting fics when I’m done writing them and just pasting the code in. That sounds complex, but you could easily replace that with the more conservative of Word’s export-to-html features, or something similar.
        Hopefully this hasn’t been confusing XD. I’m really glad I can help out– it really sucked not knowing exactly what to do, and now that I’m on track in some manner, I like to see if I can help anyone else out.

        • dharma_slut says:

          you are my new fwend!
          haha! Thank you so much for the replies.
          So, right now I have samples of each on my site. The
          efiction pretty much works right out of the box, but will take tweaking to –remove– a lot of extras, aimed at community. There are scripts out there that will clean up the URLs, maybe I can fiddle around and get one working, because I sure as hell need chapter support!
          Archive I think, only supports uploaded stories, and only plain text. I’m used to copy-and pasting into a window… I guess that doesn’t matter much!
          I would prefer a cgi-type application, that writes flat files and over-writes then as necessary. I’ve used a shopping cart that did that– y the hell not an archive?
          I don’t know what Python is like. Is it learnable?

          • quivo says:

            Re: you are my new fwend!
            Archive I think, only supports uploaded stories, and only plain text
            Actually, it works fine with HTML if you paste it in…I think there’s an option where you can turn that off, but it definitely supports HTML uploads.
            Python is *definitely* learnable. Here’s the tutorial that got me started: Python tutorial. And here’s where to download the python files (unless you’re using Linux or or OSX, you don’t have it installed): python download page. The tutorial is a bit math-y, but if you just try out the examples in ways that make more sense to you, you should be fine. That’s usually how I learn something, by futzing around with it in ways that aren’t quite in the book :)
            Hope this helps…

          • dharma_slut says:

            Re: you are my new fwend!
            That’s very cool, and it does look learnable.
            And python can do CGI.
            Any, my server has Python, and I’m on a mac.
            Oh, goodies, one more distraction… I hate you so much right now… XD

          • quivo says:

            Re: you are my new fwend!
            *bows* Am glad to distract someone other than myself for once. Have fun coding away- once you get everything going, it really is fun :D

  • cathexys says:

    Not sure that’s what you mean, but wordpress has the ability to create pages that are outside the date-organized order and allow you to present them within but at the same time separate from the blog…

  • cathexys says:

    Not sure that’s what you mean, but wordpress has the ability to create pages that are outside the date-organized order and allow you to present them within but at the same time separate from the blog…

  • melannen says:

    I’ve been wanting something like this for awhile, and I actually did the prelim planning to write a bare-bones program that will take a plaintext or rtf (or html, or lj markup) file and give you a flat html file to match your website, and then automatically add it to the index too. I’m just waiting to figure out if I want to learn Python or Ruby for it. :D Glad to know I’m not the only one.
    But Automated Archive is looking really cool and I might just try that instead.

    • Stella Omega says:

      Melannen, Your project sounds a lot like ‘s and perhaps you two should introduce yourselves to each other!
      If you try A-A, are you planning to modify the code at all? I will concentrate on efiction, if you do A-A…
      I have also gotten email from someone who says he is a “hardcore coder” His project is to create community software like LV that functions as archive for each member.

  • melannen says:

    I’ve been wanting something like this for awhile, and I actually did the prelim planning to write a bare-bones program that will take a plaintext or rtf (or html, or lj markup) file and give you a flat html file to match your website, and then automatically add it to the index too. I’m just waiting to figure out if I want to learn Python or Ruby for it. :D Glad to know I’m not the only one.
    But Automated Archive is looking really cool and I might just try that instead.

    • dharma_slut says:

      Melannen, Your project sounds a lot like ‘s and perhaps you two should introduce yourselves to each other!
      If you try A-A, are you planning to modify the code at all? I will concentrate on efiction, if you do A-A…
      I have also gotten email from someone who says he is a “hardcore coder” His project is to create community software like LV that functions as archive for each member.

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